An End To The Universalism topic.


I've decided to wrap up this topic to make way for an even bigger one Mclarenism.


My way of wrapping it up is also pretty darn simple, assuming your Orthodox that is. You can reject the extreme end of Universalism, by just following the history of the Church's teaching on this subject. While I have heard the (false) claim that this teaching did not originate until the mid 500 (whenever the Eastern Orthodox had that big counsel that dealt with Origenism), in my studies I have found all kinds of various prior precedents that suggest that this has been the teaching of the Church.


Like the Athanasian Creed for instance which says
"And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved."
Retrieved from "http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Athanasian_Creed"


According to Tradition, Athenasius had a hand in formulating this creed. Besides this there are other precendents like Statements made by Ignatius of Antioch

"CHAPTER XVI.--THE FATE OF FALSE TEACHERS.
Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him"


Besides this statement there is another statement of his that I lost track of, I read it once but can't for the life of me find it again. But I will try to paraphrase it. It basically described the notion of hell that Bishop Kallistos Ware described. It spoke that God is like a "great furnance" used for firing clay pots. And those that die unprepared are like the clay pots that burst in the fire (due to the bubbles, and imperfections). Anyway the quote both described a classical Orthodox notion of both Hell as well as the process of theosis in this life.


Which is significant in light of my earlier comments as in "But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches..." This is the testimony of an Early Bishop whose authority is recognized.


Besides this there are other ones: As I mentioned before barring of the Origen from the priesthood is another one (It's a repudiation on all the teachings that he taught that were contrary to Orthodoxy. The pre-existence of souls especially, but this one also to a lesser degree).


The fore mentioned Athenasian Creed is probably the best one. While this creed with modern scholarship has come under dispute in much the same way that modernists debate any dogmatic teaching, it is more credible if you take it in its context. Specifically speaking it is now often labeled as a "Latin Creed", because it most often used by the Roman Catholic Church. Which uses it in worship, dogma etc. From a Literary Critism stand point, I also know it is supposed to have some Latin nuances (suggesting it is Latin origen, and critics don't date this until the 500s). But what is impressive is the Coptic and Eastern Orthodox testimony. The Coptic testimony regarding the creed is impressive because Coptic Church testifies to the Creed even though it supposedly came out a good 100+ years after the Schism with the Coptic Church and the Church of Rome. And anyone knowing about the fallout of the Counsel of Chalcedon knows that we stopped associating and adopting anything that was Latin after that time. And of course the Eastern Orthodox use of the creed is extra gravey that shows this to be a truely Catholic expression of Faith (as in the St. Vincent Lerins expression of "what is held by all Christians at all times").


And finally for those that don't understand how the Early Church and contemporary Orthodox church works (in contrast to Protestantism), I would recomend this story.

The Orthodox Church and the Lutherans -An ecumenical correspondence from 1573 to 1581.

http://home1.inet.tele.dk/moebjerg/en-orthodox.htm


And I would focus on one of the last comments made regarding the dogmatic nature of the statements made by Patriarch Jeremiah II


"It became a voluminous work, when the total correspondence in 1584 was published in Wittenberg - nearly 300 pages. The Lutherans have not since picked up the thread, but in the Orthodox world the correspondence has got authoritative character, as the answers of the patriarch are looked at as one of the "confessions" of the Orthodox Church - with with reference to the Lutheran heresy. Still the 161 pages long letters of the patriarch form part of the symbolic books of the Orthodox Church, and Orthodox theological students have to go through this more than 400 years old dialogue between the Orthodox and the Lutherans."


I would suggest this true for all statements and decisions regarding this Issue. From St. Ignatius, to the dealing with Origen by his contemporary Church authorities, to even the Byzantine Church's dealings with the heresy of Origenism in its own jurisdiction which are referenced on the Coptic site (As reflecting out opinion as well, these show the great heretical legacy of Origen and from the basis of his thought).

http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2

"THE ANATHEMAS AGAINST ORIGEN"

1. If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema.


11. If anyone shall say that the future judgment signifies the destruction of the body and that the end of the story will be an immaterial , and that thereafter there will no longer be any matter, but only spirit (nous): let him be anathema.


12. If anyone shall say that the heavenly Powers and all men and the Devil and evil spirits are united with the Word of God in all respects, as the (Nous) which is by them called Christ and which is in the form of God, and which humbled itself as they say; and [if anyone shall say] that the Kingdom of Christ shall have an end: let him be anathema.


14. If anyone shall say that all reasonable beings will one day be united in one, when the hypostases as well as the numbers and the bodies shall have disappeared, and that the knowledge of the world to come will carry with it the ruin of the worlds, and the rejection of bodies as also the abolition of [all] names, and that there shall be finally an identity of the (gnosis) and of the hypostasis; moreover, that in this pretended apocatastasis, spirits only will continue to exist, as it was in the feigned pre-existence: let him be anathema.

15. If anyone shall say that the life of the spirits (noon) shall be like to the life which was in the beginning while as yet the spirits had not come down or fallen, so that the end and the beginning shall be alike, and that the end shall be the true measure of the beginning: let him be anathema.



The later is a theological opinion and verdict which while it does not have direct authority over us (The Coptic Church), is nevertheless always noted and cited by us, concerning this issue (In the same way that courts of other nations and states usually hold up the decisions of ones that our outside their jurisdiction, and do so consistently unless it can be clearly demonstrated that such rulings are "not made in good faith", or otherwise faulty or flawed). Considering the fact that Roman Catholic, Coptic Orthodox, and Eastern Orthodox opinion are unanimous on this topic. And given it early official paper trail, this dogma fits the St. Vincent Canon as well or better then many others we accept as "Holy Tradition".